For the life-line I used nylon Bead Cord, from the local craft store, which is available in different sizes. I used the #3 which is 0.5 mm. It comes in black, I just dry-brushed it with a dark gray.
Al
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Vosper MTB build
TAFFY3
Joined: January 21, 2008
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Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 10:47 AM UTC
Armed and dangerous.
For the life-line I used nylon Bead Cord, from the local craft store, which is available in different sizes. I used the #3 which is 0.5 mm. It comes in black, I just dry-brushed it with a dark gray. Al
For the life-line I used nylon Bead Cord, from the local craft store, which is available in different sizes. I used the #3 which is 0.5 mm. It comes in black, I just dry-brushed it with a dark gray.
Al
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 05:54 PM UTC
Looking excellent Al. Nice work.
Alan
Alan
TGarthConnelly
Joined: August 03, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 01:16 AM UTC
May I ask a stupid question?
When the RN used captured Breda guns, cold they use the ammunition from the Oerlikons they used, or was it different from the ammunition used in the Breda guns?
I'm not referring to the drums and clips, but the shells.
Garth
When the RN used captured Breda guns, cold they use the ammunition from the Oerlikons they used, or was it different from the ammunition used in the Breda guns?
I'm not referring to the drums and clips, but the shells.
Garth
TAFFY3
Joined: January 21, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 04:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
May I ask a stupid question?
When the RN used captured Breda guns, cold they use the ammunition from the Oerlikons they used, or was it different from the ammunition used in the Breda guns?
I'm not referring to the drums and clips, but the shells.
Garth
Hello Garth, there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers. As far as the ammo goes, I don't know. The caliber is the same, but that doesn't mean the shell is the same. The M-79 grenade launcher uses a 40mm shell, as does the Bofors, but they are definitely not interchangeable. Maybe someone else might have more info?
AlTGarthConnelly
Joined: August 03, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 06:44 AM UTC
That was what I was getting at, Al. Where would the ammunition come from for sustained ops, you know?
Garth
Garth
TAFFY3
Joined: January 21, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 08:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
That was what I was getting at, Al. Where would the ammunition come from for sustained ops, you know?
Garth
Same place they got the gun(s), captured Italian stockpiles. It might have been a stop-gap installation, until more Oerlikon 20mm guns became available. Like Jack Kennedy's 37mm US Army A/T gun on the 109, and the 37mm's scavenged from wrecked P-39 fighters.
AlTGarthConnelly
Joined: August 03, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 09:47 AM UTC
True, true ...
But, the thing is Al, there is evidence available, though not photographic evidence unfortunately, which does indicate that there were a number of boats other than the 109 which mounted an 37mm M3 on the foredeck. If memory serves, the book on PT-105 discusses that, though, knowing me? I could be wrong about that.
But, do you know what? A gentleman named Alex Johnson told me that, in New Guinea, the 190 of RON 12 put a 37mm M4 on the MK IV mount aft (where the 20mm went) ... I find that interesting, at least.
But, the thing is Al, there is evidence available, though not photographic evidence unfortunately, which does indicate that there were a number of boats other than the 109 which mounted an 37mm M3 on the foredeck. If memory serves, the book on PT-105 discusses that, though, knowing me? I could be wrong about that.
But, do you know what? A gentleman named Alex Johnson told me that, in New Guinea, the 190 of RON 12 put a 37mm M4 on the MK IV mount aft (where the 20mm went) ... I find that interesting, at least.
TAFFY3
Joined: January 21, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 11:23 AM UTC
But, do you know what? A gentleman named Alex Johnson told me that, in New Guinea, the 190 of RON 12 put a 37mm M4 on the MK IV mount aft (where the 20mm went) ... I find that interesting, at least. [quoted text]
That is interesting Garth. The 190, isn't that the one Revell released as the "Jack 'O Diamonds"? I'll have to keep it in mind if I pick up the 1/35th 109 that Italeri is coming out with, maybe do it as the190 instead. Al
That is interesting Garth. The 190, isn't that the one Revell released as the "Jack 'O Diamonds"? I'll have to keep it in mind if I pick up the 1/35th 109 that Italeri is coming out with, maybe do it as the190 instead.
AlTGarthConnelly
Joined: August 03, 2008
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Posted: Monday, May 14, 2012 - 01:43 AM UTC
Yes, that's the very rare version of the Revell 109 kit. I've only seen photos of the box art and of the sprue trees as well as seeing it on Ebay from time to time. Wanted one as a kid. Never got one. Can't afford one now.
I hear that, soon, a book is coming out that deals with the Revell PT kits. I don't know if it's just a rumor or not.
I hear that, soon, a book is coming out that deals with the Revell PT kits. I don't know if it's just a rumor or not.
allycat
Joined: October 03, 2004
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Posted: Monday, May 14, 2012 - 07:13 AM UTC
Taffy, T.Garth,
If you compare these two pages:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_2cm-70_mk234.htm
And
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_20mm-65.htm
you'll see the ammunition weights differ, so, no they probably couldn't use the same rounds. (I'm assuming that the Italian armed forces all used the same types of ammunition)
TTFN
Tom
If you compare these two pages:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_2cm-70_mk234.htm
And
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_20mm-65.htm
you'll see the ammunition weights differ, so, no they probably couldn't use the same rounds. (I'm assuming that the Italian armed forces all used the same types of ammunition)
TTFN
Tom
TAFFY3
Joined: January 21, 2008
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Posted: Monday, May 14, 2012 - 08:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Taffy, T.Garth,
If you compare these two pages:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_2cm-70_mk234.htm
And
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_20mm-65.htm
you'll see the ammunition weights differ, so, no they probably couldn't use the same rounds. (I'm assuming that the Italian armed forces all used the same types of ammunition)
TTFN
Tom
Thanks for the info Tom, I think you are right about two rounds being different for each type of gun, and therefore incompatible.
AlTAFFY3
Joined: January 21, 2008
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Posted: Monday, May 14, 2012 - 08:32 AM UTC
The 'Dustbin' has some teeth now that the guns are mounted.
I felt the suggested assembly sequence was overly complicated. So I glued the inner trunnion mounts (part nos. 41E & 42E) to the turret ring (part no. 25E) first, and was able to slip the ammo belt (part no. 27E) through its openings in the trunnions (minus the armor plate). Then I slipped the guns onto the tabs at either end of the belt. Finally I glued the two outer trunnions (part nos. 23E & 24E) into place. I had to remove the front locating pin on the bottom of each of them to be able to pivot them into place. The sight support (part no. 40E) is flexible enough that you can pop it into place afterwards. I still have to add the gunners armor plate and the sights. Al
I felt the suggested assembly sequence was overly complicated. So I glued the inner trunnion mounts (part nos. 41E & 42E) to the turret ring (part no. 25E) first, and was able to slip the ammo belt (part no. 27E) through its openings in the trunnions (minus the armor plate). Then I slipped the guns onto the tabs at either end of the belt. Finally I glued the two outer trunnions (part nos. 23E & 24E) into place. I had to remove the front locating pin on the bottom of each of them to be able to pivot them into place. The sight support (part no. 40E) is flexible enough that you can pop it into place afterwards. I still have to add the gunners armor plate and the sights.
AlTGarthConnelly
Joined: August 03, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 01:13 AM UTC
Yes, thank you Tom. This confirms what I suspected.
Garth
Garth
TheModeller
Joined: March 01, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 04:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
That was what I was getting at, Al. Where would the ammunition come from for sustained ops, you know?
Garth
I reckon Al has it right, from what I can tell captured Italian equipment, weapons and ammo was readily available, I read in Popes 'Flag 4', I think, that MTB 61(?) was re-fitted with 6(!) Bredas converting it into a gunboat.
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 07:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The 'Dustbin' has some teeth now that the guns are mounted.
I felt the suggested assembly sequence was overly complicated. So I glued the inner trunnion mounts (part nos. 41E & 42E) to the turret ring (part no. 25E) first, and was able to slip the ammo belt (part no. 27E) through its openings in the trunnions (minus the armor plate). Then I slipped the guns onto the tabs at either end of the belt. Finally I glued the two outer trunnions (part nos. 23E & 24E) into place. I had to remove the front locating pin on the bottom of each of them to be able to pivot them into place. The sight support (part no. 40E) is flexible enough that you can pop it into place afterwards. I still have to add the gunners armor plate and the sights.
Excellent work Al.
Alan
TAFFY3
Joined: January 21, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 10:57 AM UTC
Thanks Alan, I need a better camera though, the pictures don't look as good as the actual assembly. I realized today that I didn't mount the lower yardarm in the right place on the mast, it was too low. Oh well, at least it is an easy fix as I haven't started any of the rigging yet. Live and learn, or at least hide your mistakes. 
Al
Al
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 02:31 AM UTC
Excellent work on the dustbin Al, nice accents you have added as well: I will have to remember the brass rings around the front of the barrel.
You are making that Italeri model stand up and do tricks
Cheers,
Julian
You are making that Italeri model stand up and do tricks
Cheers,
Julian
TAFFY3
Joined: January 21, 2008
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Posted: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 11:22 AM UTC
Thanks Julian, I noticed in photos that the ends of the barrel jackets on some of the Vickers MGs were brass, and thought that would add a little extra color & detail. Al
AlTAFFY3
Joined: January 21, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 03:43 PM UTC
Here are a couple of pics of the completed 'Dustbin' turret.
Started on the rigging today, now I remember why I haven't built a full-rigged ship for quite some time. FYI, There is a mistake in the instruction sheet. On page 28 it lists line #9 twice, but no line #8. No. 9 is the forestay that runs to the top of the wheelhouse(180mm). No.8 is one of the backstays (220mm), it runs to the starboard side, next to the torpedo tube, #7 goes to port. They are shown correctly on page 29. Al
Started on the rigging today, now I remember why I haven't built a full-rigged ship for quite some time. FYI, There is a mistake in the instruction sheet. On page 28 it lists line #9 twice, but no line #8. No. 9 is the forestay that runs to the top of the wheelhouse(180mm). No.8 is one of the backstays (220mm), it runs to the starboard side, next to the torpedo tube, #7 goes to port. They are shown correctly on page 29.
AlAlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
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Posted: Friday, May 18, 2012 - 05:40 PM UTC
Hi Al,
The kit is looking excellent, terrific work and an informative blog. looking forward to developments.
Cheers
Alan
The kit is looking excellent, terrific work and an informative blog. looking forward to developments.
Cheers
Alan
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
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Posted: Friday, May 18, 2012 - 05:48 PM UTC
I can only agree with what Alan wrote: top notch work Al,
Julian
Julian
TAFFY3
Joined: January 21, 2008
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Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 02:27 AM UTC
Hello Alan, and Julian, Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. Al
AlTAFFY3
Joined: January 21, 2008
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Posted: Monday, May 21, 2012 - 02:42 AM UTC
Well, the rigging is completed and I have a new respect for anyone who ties knots in confined spaces, such as Surgeons, or those who build ships in a bottle. Trying to tie knots using tweezers raised my blood pressure a few points to say the least. If I had it to do over again it might have been easier to attach the mast and do the halyards before mounting the wheelhouse to the deck. But then I probably would have broken the mast sometime during the rest of the build.
FYI: you have to be careful when putting tension on the forward flagstaff, it will bend (and possibly break) if too much is applied. Likewise, the mast is rather flexible and can be pulled out of position if care isn't taken. I also had a little trouble mounting the boat-hooks on the foredeck. The holes in the deck weren't spaced quite far enough apart, causing them to bow up in the middle. I just shaved the single pin on one end of each of the boat-hooks and that solved the problem.
The only major assembling left, aside from the crew, are the Depth Charges. It never fails to amaze me, it seems like you have so far to go, and then suddenly it is almost finished, as if by magic. Maybe those Shoemakers' Elves have switched to model building. Al
FYI: you have to be careful when putting tension on the forward flagstaff, it will bend (and possibly break) if too much is applied. Likewise, the mast is rather flexible and can be pulled out of position if care isn't taken. I also had a little trouble mounting the boat-hooks on the foredeck. The holes in the deck weren't spaced quite far enough apart, causing them to bow up in the middle. I just shaved the single pin on one end of each of the boat-hooks and that solved the problem.
The only major assembling left, aside from the crew, are the Depth Charges. It never fails to amaze me, it seems like you have so far to go, and then suddenly it is almost finished, as if by magic. Maybe those Shoemakers' Elves have switched to model building.
AlAlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 21, 2012 - 06:26 AM UTC
Hi Al,
Congrats and excellent job. The rigging looks tricky and the flexability of the forward flagstaff is the same issue as with the MAS Boat.
Splendid work, it's looking grand. Will you be adding the aiming sight for the torpedos, or did I miss that?
Looking forward to the final presentation, a cracking job.
Alan
Congrats and excellent job. The rigging looks tricky and the flexability of the forward flagstaff is the same issue as with the MAS Boat.
Splendid work, it's looking grand. Will you be adding the aiming sight for the torpedos, or did I miss that?
Looking forward to the final presentation, a cracking job.
Alan
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
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KitMaker: 3,897 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 21, 2012 - 06:35 AM UTC
For all the complaining you still did a magic job there Al 
Very nice work on the rigging
Julian
Very nice work on the rigging
Julian
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