_GOTOBOTTOM
General Ship Modeling
Discuss modeling techniques, experiences, and ship modeling in general.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Building the mighty Bismarck
MrMox
Visit this Community
Aarhus, Denmark
Joined: July 18, 2003
KitMaker: 3,377 posts
Model Shipwrights: 985 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 - 08:54 AM UTC
looks nice, I used a rattlecan with autoprimer - much cheeper
TracyWhite
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: January 18, 2005
KitMaker: 527 posts
Model Shipwrights: 464 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 - 04:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have this kit as well, and while I'm no expert, I know the Bismarck's hull was welded, not riveted, so was anyone else surprised that the kit's hull is so smooth, without weld lines? Or is the perfectly smooth hull accurate?


Just a quick note here - I think most model builders miss-understand how much research model companies do and how much reference materials they have. I looked into getting the plans for a major US capital ship reproduced at the US National Archives (Pennsylvania class) and it was in excess of five grand. This was in the US archives, where reproduction costs are *cheaper* than Europe.

These companies typically turn to commercial plans, which are side views, hull lines, and miss a lot of details that the builders plans would have (plating diagrams, rigging, etc.). Finally, their focus is on doing just enough detail as to satisfy the model builder. Sometimes that means one-upping another company on detail, but generally they don't want to spend years researching a subject.

It's up to the model builder to take it to the next level, if they so desire. Trumpeter has given you an excellent framework to start with.
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,301 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 - 05:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

looks nice, I used a rattlecan with autoprimer - much cheeper


Thanks Jan,
The hull took one jar of Life colour Shiffsbodemfarbe red, cost about 3 Euro, so I'm not sure its more expensive Jan
Biggest hull I have ever sprayed with an airbrush though
Now to do some weathering under the waterline.
Cheers,
Julian
DanielMoscatelli
Visit this Community
Montevideo, Uruguay
Joined: August 22, 2011
KitMaker: 998 posts
Model Shipwrights: 941 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 - 11:59 PM UTC
Good boys, ultimately I closed the ojo and oppressed the button PAY!!! Soon we will have a Bismarck in the waters of the River of the Plate ......... jejejjeje

Regards
MrMox
Visit this Community
Aarhus, Denmark
Joined: July 18, 2003
KitMaker: 3,377 posts
Model Shipwrights: 985 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 02:24 AM UTC
Congrats Daniel, looking forward seeing you do your magic on it!


Quoted Text


It's up to the model builder to take it to the next level, if they so desire. Trumpeter has given you an excellent framework to start with.


if you ask me, then thats the fun part
apalella
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 11, 2012
KitMaker: 66 posts
Model Shipwrights: 23 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 02:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I have this kit as well, and while I'm no expert, I know the Bismarck's hull was welded, not riveted, so was anyone else surprised that the kit's hull is so smooth, without weld lines? Or is the perfectly smooth hull accurate?


Just a quick note here - I think most model builders miss-understand how much research model companies do and how much reference materials they have. I looked into getting the plans for a major US capital ship reproduced at the US National Archives (Pennsylvania class) and it was in excess of five grand. This was in the US archives, where reproduction costs are *cheaper* than Europe.

These companies typically turn to commercial plans, which are side views, hull lines, and miss a lot of details that the builders plans would have (plating diagrams, rigging, etc.). Finally, their focus is on doing just enough detail as to satisfy the model builder. Sometimes that means one-upping another company on detail, but generally they don't want to spend years researching a subject.

It's up to the model builder to take it to the next level, if they so desire. Trumpeter has given you an excellent framework to start with.


Mr. White, that's a fair point that I was not aware of. I just thought it was curious, that's all. I am by no means disappointed, or accusing Trumpeter of skimping.

-Andrew
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,301 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 04:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Good boys, ultimately I closed the ojo and oppressed the button PAY!!! Soon we will have a Bismarck in the waters of the River of the Plate ......... jejejjeje

Regards


Welcome aboard Daniel I am already looking forward to seeing your build. cheers
Julian
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,301 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 04:54 AM UTC
My Polish PE arrived today, stand by for a mini review
Julian
MrMox
Visit this Community
Aarhus, Denmark
Joined: July 18, 2003
KitMaker: 3,377 posts
Model Shipwrights: 985 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 04:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

My Polish PE arrived today, stand by for a mini review
Julian


Oh, the suspense .... can hardly wait
Ascaria
Visit this Community
Wroclaw, Poland
Joined: February 01, 2008
KitMaker: 253 posts
Model Shipwrights: 141 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 05:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

My Polish PE arrived today, stand by for a mini review
Julian


Hope you will be satisfied with quality of this set

Cheers

Wojtek
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,301 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 06:39 AM UTC
Hi Wojtek, Jan,
you will both have to be patient here. The PE is beautiful, nicely made and nicely detailed. There is one problem though There is no instruction sheet included Some parts are easily identified, some parts you can more or less guess where to put but a lot of parts I have no idea where to fit I have mailed www.gpm.pl and asked if they can mail me a set of instructions so I can make full use of their set
The life-rafts look quite nice and the barrels I am not too sure about
So, patience is needed here
cheers,
Julian
Ascaria
Visit this Community
Wroclaw, Poland
Joined: February 01, 2008
KitMaker: 253 posts
Model Shipwrights: 141 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 07:01 AM UTC
If you will need some help please let me know... maybe I can ask in Polish forums ?
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,301 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 07:28 AM UTC
Hi Wojtek,
That would be a great help. These are the plates:






As you can see there are reference numbers next to the pieces so there must be an instruction sheet or a list of what the parts are. The service from GPM has been excellent so far so I trust they will respond to my mail but it won't do any harm to ask on the Polish forums'. Thank you very much Wojtek,
cheers,
Julian
warreni
Visit this Community
South Australia, Australia
Joined: August 14, 2007
KitMaker: 5,926 posts
Model Shipwrights: 2,624 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 08:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Another photo of Bismarck's stack with a canvas dodger fitted to the searchlight platform:



Cheers


Take note that the top of the stack is aluminium in the photo, not black...
warreni
Visit this Community
South Australia, Australia
Joined: August 14, 2007
KitMaker: 5,926 posts
Model Shipwrights: 2,624 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 08:33 AM UTC
Why does the smooth hull surprise you guys? Don't you think the weld s etc would have been ground smooth to cut down on drag? All those welds would cause a huge amount of drag if left un-smoothed..

Just giving you something to think about.
warreni
Visit this Community
South Australia, Australia
Joined: August 14, 2007
KitMaker: 5,926 posts
Model Shipwrights: 2,624 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 08:36 AM UTC
Julian, the parts in the first picture are the boat railings, I know all about them after my 1/350 build.. Much better size in 1/200!
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,301 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 08:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Another photo of Bismarck's stack with a canvas dodger fitted to the searchlight platform:



Cheers


Take note that the top of the stack is aluminium in the photo, not black...


Hi Warren,
matt aluminium funnel cap is mentioned in most of the references and visible in a lot of photo's. Tirpitz had the black funnel cap.

Julian
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,301 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 08:38 AM UTC
Kadunk ! the coin just dropped. Thanks Warren, they seemed very familiar. Now I remember them from my Tirpitz build
Julian
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,301 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 08:40 AM UTC
The weld seams are visible in some photos, problem is no overall view. Still, I'm not going to loose any sleep over this detail
Cheers,
Julian
DanielMoscatelli
Visit this Community
Montevideo, Uruguay
Joined: August 22, 2011
KitMaker: 998 posts
Model Shipwrights: 941 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 09:32 AM UTC
Good friends an been assets for what I see!!! Jajaja First thank you for accepting myself in the fleet jajajaj I wait not to defraud but surely this child delays in coming!!! Julian ... it does not use!!! I spend the tip to you and I waiting for my plates for the Spee and your already you have this there!!! Jajaj
I am glad very much!!
For what one sees in the photos they are very nice!!! Julian in the first one these railings looks like to me a rails of the boats and the curved one of the window of them ... the big scales of the masts, propels of the boats too. In two radars and reflectors and 3 is the complicated more riles, spends ends decks anti air .... mmmm if you send instructive favor to send a copy jejej Can that these numbers of reference are in the instructive of the model GPM
Pretty work waits for me with the Graf Spee!!! Instructions please!!!!!That we have luck to "Wojtek" of translator!!!

Good boys continue being employed at yours Bismarck like that I when it begins have the clean way ... jajjajaj extract many photos!!!!!! Jajajjaja

Daniel
Torchy
#047
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: September 13, 2005
KitMaker: 2,016 posts
Model Shipwrights: 72 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 06:10 PM UTC
Congratulations on your purchase Daniel
Julian,thanks for the heads up on the PE and the link,thats a good price for all that brass!keep us informed on the instuctions
Andy
warreni
Visit this Community
South Australia, Australia
Joined: August 14, 2007
KitMaker: 5,926 posts
Model Shipwrights: 2,624 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 07:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text



As you can see there are reference numbers next to the pieces so there must be an instruction sheet or a list of what the parts are. The service from GPM has been excellent so far so I trust they will respond to my mail but it won't do any harm to ask on the Polish forums'. Thank you very much Wojtek,
cheers,
Julian


Do the numbers and letters correspond to the kit parts they are replacing?
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,301 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 07:31 PM UTC
No, that was the first thing I checked. I think the numbers refer to a list of what parts they replace, (like WEM does with the drawing of the sprue).
Cheers,
Julian
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,301 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 07:38 PM UTC
Hi Daniel, GPM packed everything in cardboard so it arrived in perfect condition.It's just taking a bit longer to ship it to the other side of the World. The boat railings and windscreens are obvious now, the ladders with the spacers attached are almost certainly for the funnel. The catapults are obvious as well as the searchlight shutters, capstan wheels and storage reel parts. There do remain a lot of things that I can't place. Warren is checking his instruction sheets from his Bismarck build so maybe we can identify everything. Still plenty of time, I will be painting the hull this weekend.
Cheers,
Julian
Ascaria
Visit this Community
Wroclaw, Poland
Joined: February 01, 2008
KitMaker: 253 posts
Model Shipwrights: 141 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 08:11 PM UTC
Hi Julian, nice Guy from GPM have promised me to send you instructions for their Bismarck, because PE set its just replacement for paper parts, Cheers Wojtek
 _GOTOTOP